Gordon Ryan‘s perspective on belts and progress in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu lands like a hammer blow. During his recent appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience UFC Paris Companion, the ADCC gold medalist cut straight to the core of what truly matters on the mats.
The conversation centered around Derek Moneyberg, a wealthy man from a questionable background who ‘earned’ his black belt under Jake Shields in just three and a half years.
“It’s the thing that doesn’t f-cking matter. Like just get better at jiu-jitsu. The belts are irrelevant for good point. Like there’s just focus on getting better at jiu-jitsu. The belts are irrelevant.”
Joe Rogan seemed to agree despite his penchant for calling out mcdojo type martial artists:
“Good point… “
Ryan acknowledged that belt levels vary wildly. Some practitioners never compete, others grind for decades and still others—like Derek—train four hours a day with world-class instruction. To Ryan, those differences don’t justify endless debates over timelines.
Rogan pointed out that Jake Shields awarded Derek his black belt, and that was enough in his mind:
“But if Jake Shields did it, Jake Shields is very legit. And so if he said he’s a black belt, I just take it at face value.”
Ryan explained that his own definition of a “sh-tty black belt” is someone he submitted at the world level. But when he steps into a regular gym, he’s reminded of what the average black belt really looks like—and how even Derek Moneyberg could allegedly hold his own.
“If Derek rolled with like a regular black belt in a gym, he’d do fine… he would probably beat him up to be honest.”
Ryan closed the loop with a point many competitors already know: the belt hierarchy is increasingly meaningless in live rolls.
“This belt thing… blue belts can beat up black belts now. Like, you know, it’s… they certainly can if they’re strong and they’re fast and they got tight technique. So it’s like, if it’s a really good black belt, fine. But my standard for a black belt is so unrealistically high that I don’t even have a black belt.”
