In a recent appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience UFC Paris Companion, ADCC champion Gordon Ryan offered a perspective that dismantles traditional notions of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu progression. Known as one of the greatest grapplers alive, Ryan shocked listeners by revealing that his standards for a black belt are so impossibly high that, by his own metric, he wouldn’t even qualify.
“I don’t have any black belts like my standard for a black belt is like so unrealistically high that I don’t even I don’t have a black belt,”
Ryan said.
The comment came during a discussion about Derek Moneyberg, a wealthy self-help guru who controversially earned a black belt from Jake Shields in just three and a half years. The promotion has drawn criticism across the jiu-jitsu world, with many questioning its legitimacy.
Ryan‘s stance was blunt: the endless debates about belt timelines are irrelevant compared to actual skill.
“It’s the thing that doesn’t f-cking matter. Like just get better at jiu-jitsu. The belts are irrelevant for good point. Like there’s just focus on getting better at jiu-jitsu. The belts are irrelevant.”
Joe Rogan, who has built a reputation calling out “mcdojo” style promotions, surprisingly agreed:
“Good point…”
The Gap Between Gym Black Belts and World-Class Black Belts
Ryan explained that the black belt label means vastly different things depending on context. In a regular gym, someone like Moneyberg could probably dominate most black belts.
“If Derek rolled with like a regular black belt in a gym, he’d do fine… he would probably beat him up to be honest.”
But on the world stage, Ryan‘s standard is harsh. For him, anyone he can submit at the elite level falls into the category of what he considers a “sh-tty black belt.” This mismatch between hobbyist-level black belts and competitive grapplers is what fuels his disdain for the belt hierarchy.
“This belt thing… blue belts can beat up black belts now. Like, you know, it’s… they certainly can if they’re strong and they’re fast and they got tight technique. So it’s like, if it’s a really good black belt, fine. But my standard for a black belt is so unrealistically high that I don’t even have a black belt.”
Craig Jones: Belts Are a Marketing Trick
Ryan isn’t alone in his skepticism. His longtime training partner Craig Jones has been just as dismissive of the belt system.
“The black belt is honestly just a trick. It’s like a marketing trick to keep people hooked,”
Jones explained.
“You know, it’s the reason why people do Jiu-Jitsu longer than they do kickboxing or boxing classes. It’s a hook to keep you invested.”
Jones compared the belt ladder to a multi-level marketing scheme, with each stripe and promotion acting as bait to retain students.
“You could be a s*itty black belt,”
Jones added.
“A black belt doesn’t prevent or mean anything at the end of the day. You’re only as good as how you could train and perform.”
John Danaher: Don’t Lower Your Standards
Ryan‘s coach, John Danaher, has echoed similar sentiments. Speaking to Lex Fridman, Danaher bluntly admitted:
“I know plenty of black belts that suck.”
He criticized students who make “getting a black belt” their primary goal.
“Don’t lower your standards by saying I want to get a black belt. The only thing that counts is the skills you have. Ask yourself: how good do I want to be?”
Danaher‘s philosophy shifts the focus away from status symbols and back to actual technical development—an approach Ryan clearly absorbed.
Musumeci‘s Backpedal on Moneyberg
Not everyone has held consistent positions on this issue. Mikey Musumeci, one of the most respected technicians in the sport, initially defended Moneyberg‘s rapid black belt promotion online, even claiming the controversial figure was better than many established black belts. But under pressure from Craig Jones, Musumeci walked back his defense.
“He’s a hobbyist that likes jiu-jitsu… Did I give him his black belt? No. Would I give anyone their black belt in three and a half years? No, no.”
Musumeci eventually conceded that the only scenario where a black belt could be legitimately earned in under four years would be a prodigy who steamrolls every belt division at Worlds. Otherwise, the timeline simply doesn’t add up.
The Belt Problem in Modern Jiu-Jitsu
The debate over belts exposes a deep identity crisis in BJJ. The IBJJF has formal standards, yet those rules mean little in an era where competitive success and private instruction blur the lines. On one end, practitioners grind for a decade before reaching black belt; on the other, wealthy hobbyists with elite coaching fast-track their way up.
Ryan, Jones and Danaher all push a radical counter-narrative: stop obsessing over belts and start measuring skill. In Ryan‘s eyes, a black belt is only meaningful when it reflects world-class ability. Anything less is, in his words, irrelevant.
