During a recent episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, UFC bantamweight contender Cory Sandhagen joined host Joe Rogan for an in-depth discussion that touched on various aspects of mixed martial arts, with particular emphasis on grappling and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu in the UFC.
One of the most compelling parts of their conversation centered around the underappreciation of grappling among casual MMA fans. Rogan expressed his frustration with crowds that boo during grappling exchanges, stating,
“I think grappling is really hard to understand unless you’ve done it. Like, striking is easy to understand. Like, okay, that guy hit the s**t out of that guy more than the other guy hit him, right? Grappling is like it’s a whole it’s like super propriioceptive, you know? Like a lot of what’s going on in grappling isn’t it’s like hidden to the eye, you know what I mean?”
Sandhagen agreed wholeheartedly, adding his own perspective:
“When you understand grappling like it’s amazing to watch. Yes. You know, like Merab for example, who’s obviously a guy that I watch a ton. It’s amazing. Yeah. Like he does such a good job with like the little nuancy things in wrestling that’s just like… that. But it’s hard to appreciate unless you really understand it.”
Both MMA star and commentator acknowledged the significant challenges in judging grappling exchanges. Rogan was particularly critical of judges who have never trained, comparing it to
“judging a Chinese spelling bee and you don’t speak Chinese. Like, who knows who’s f**king winning here?”
Roganb rought up specific examples of how near-submissions should be scored more heavily, referencing the Charles Oliveira vs. Arman Tsarukyan card:
“I think those f**king moments where a guy is like at nine, you know, if 10 is checkmate, he’s at nine twice, that’s big, man. that you don’t want to be there. That guy got you there. He’s got a f**king locked in triangle. Yeah, you got out of it, but still that that’s big, man. That should count.”
The conversation highlighted an ongoing issue in MMA scoring where damage leading to a knockout is heavily weighted, but submission attempts that don’t result in a tap are often undervalued.
“And damage leading up to a KO or that doesn’t lead to a K.O is very significant in the scorecards, but a submission that doesn’t lead up to a submission doesn’t count. And I don’t understand that. You can’t just count damage. You have to count like near falls or near near subs.”
“like if you pop someone’s **** really bad, it it should count just as much as a knockdown or something like that.”
Sandhagen discussed his work with renowned BJJ specialist Ryan Hall, particularly in developing his 50/50 guard game and leg lock entries. He explained how these techniques have become a significant weapon in his arsenal:
“I like 50/50 a lot because one, I get to learn it from the guy who essentially invented it and is the best at it in the world. The only guys that I feel like can beat me at 50/50 are guys that train at 50/50.”
This specialized knowledge has allowed Sandhagen to pull opponents into positions where they’re completely lost, as evidenced in his fights against TJ Dillashaw and Deiveson Figueiredo, where he was able to damage their knees using leg entanglements.
Rogan praised stars like Merab Dvalishvili for their technical wrestling prowess, noting how difficult it is for casual fans to appreciate the subtle details that make elite grapplers so effective. Sandhagen agreed, emphasizing that understanding these nuances requires significant grappling experience.
The discussion also touched on how grappling conditioning differs from striking conditioning, with Sandhagen explaining:
“wrestling conditioning is a much different type of conditioning than striking. Um, so just make sure that I’m fully wrestling conditioned for that fight. And then one of the harder pieces for people in the sport is to wrestle then be able to strike like how they normally do.”
